Idk if anyone’s gonna engage me on this but I want to think it out loud anyways.

Just… as a continuation of an earlier tag commentary thought train, what is the difference between training, teaching, and manipulation?

Because I was thinking “well isn’t teaching an animal to trust you so they’ll do what you ask just manipulating them?” and like, kind of? But I guess it depends on what you’re asking them to do, why you’re training them to do it, and how you’re training them.

For example, if I’m training my dog to have basic manners in a public space, that’s not for my personal satisfaction but rather for the sake of the dog as a member of society. And generally the best methods to teach dogs are ones that involve building their confidence in you as someone to look towards for directions. Building their trust in you. Ideally the dog will participate because engaging with you brings good things for them.

But like, what about training animals to do things where the animal gets no particular benefit from it other than maybe a treat and some enrichment (arguably, and depending on the case of course)? Not like at a zoo, where they have to train animals to perform certain actions for the purpose of health checks and such. And I don’t know enough about the details of cetacean captivity and welfare to use that as an example of anything.

You’ve got four basic training methods:

  1. Positive reinforcement: A desirable stimulus is applied when a “good” behavior happens, making that behavior more likely to reoccur. (This one is most often recommended for dog training, and probably most other kinds of training. Subject performs behavior when prompted in order to earn a good reward.)
  2. Positive punishment: An undesirable stimulus is applied when a “bad” behavior happens, making that behavior less likely to reoccur (Subject stops doing behavior to avoid unpleasant stimulus. Ex. The intention people have when using shock collars.)
  3. Negative reinforcement: An unpleasant stimulus is applied. When subject performs the desired behavior, the unpleasant stimulus is removed. Behavior more likely to reoccur. (Ex. applying pressure with a choke chain, releasing pressure when dog complies – not my favorite example, but the best one I can currently think of)
  4. Negative punishment: A desired stimulus or object is removed when the subject performs an unwanted behavior. Behavior less likely to reoccur. (Ex. Ignoring a child who interrupts; turning away from a dog that jumps up when greeting. I suppose would also include things like removal of rights after an arrest.)

I’m not sure where I was going with all this, but I guess how do you differentiate between training and manipulating? Is it just the deceit and dishonest intentions that make something manipulation? Would that make it manipulative to earn a stray’s trust so you can catch them and take them to the vet (something that, while in the animal’s best interest, is very much NOT what the animal was trusting from you)? Why is teaching an animal that humans = food = good so they’ll be more cooperative not manipulative? I don’t personally think it is, but I cant explain why it isn’t.

What insect is the smartest, like the ability to rationalize Idk something like orca smart

cyan-biologist:

The real question here is “what is smart?” because rationalizing is something we as the human species invented in my opinion (what is “good” and what is “bad”). Anyhow, the question is still interesting, let’s look at the phylogenetic tree shall we:

image

Following the “if the clade is younger, the animals are more adapted/advanced”-argument, flies, butterflies and hymenoptera should be most “intelligent”. I think intelligence can be “measured” in cognitive behavior, and we know some examples of moths reacting to chemical cues. But this is not “real learning”. 

Bees, bumblebees, wasps and ants are however capable of learning behavior. In nature, these animals live in colonies and are able to protect other individuals altruistically and care for larvae that are not even from their own. In addition, bees have developed the interesting “bee dance” in order to communicate about food-sources, and if I remember correctly, bees even learn the dance from other workers. Orchids even have some interesting co-evolution going on with inexperienced bees, indicating that bees can learn which flowers they can visit. 

image

In lab-settings, some ethologists have figured out how to learn a bee/bumblebee something, look at this list of rules/things you can do with bees!

So, to answer your question:

image

why-animals-do-the-thing:

eruditionanimaladoration:

books-and-barns:

mango-pup:

h42el:

mango-pup:

themotherfuckingclickerkid:

tashahatesfun:

allbarksomebite:

themotherfuckingclickerkid:

As a contrast to the previous gifset, I wanted to make one with the classic video by Dr. Sophia Yin showing counter conditioning in action. This is a dog that had been displaying aggression severely enough to be up for euthanasia. The stimulus prompting aggression in this video is having his face blown on. While we don’t hear anything about the dog’s history, it’s pretty easy to assume that this is fear-related, as shoving your face at a dog’s face is pretty aggressive body language, a lot of smaller dogs have fear-related aggression due to their boundaries being ignored, and I don’t see any resource-guarding behavior.

You can’t draw a complete parallel, but there are a lot of similarities between this video of an aggressive dog and the video of the aggressive horse. This dog seems to be making a big aggressive display and then retreating, instead of continuing the attack with the intent of causing serious injury. The horse had its movement restricted to the round pen, and this dog has its movement restricted by a leash. Both are unhappy and dangerous animals.

Dr. Yin resolves the aggression by pairing the provocative stimulus (blowing on the dog’s face) with food. After only a few brief sessions and a bit of time, the dog no longer exhibits aggression when prompted. He doesn’t enjoy the stimulus (he still moves his head back and away, and there’s a bit of lip licking) but having his face blown on no longer provokes aggression. Instead you can see eagerness for the treatment and what looks like enjoyment of the exercise (tail wagging, what looks almost like a play bow or an attempt to get a reward with a behavior he was taught, ears forward, open relaxed mouth, looking up at her face). His emotional reaction and outward behavioral response are dramatically different.

I don’t present this as an example of why counter conditioning with food is a preferential miracle cure (dogs are a lot more likely to exhibit aggressive body language, so the horse probably had way more of a backlog of fear, whereas this guy’s fear could be worked around relatively quickly. I also wouldn’t ever recommend anyone tackle aggressive body language straight up with a leash restraining the dog, and definitely not by blowing into the dog’s face, where it’s so easy to get bit) BUT this shows a similar scenario, similar aggression, and a different protocol for resolving the problem that doesn’t involve the use of an aversive stimulus to work around aggression.

I remember watching this video in around 2010 and being amazed that this “counter-conditioning” was such a powerful technique. It was one of the videos that made me up my training game big time, and learning about CC was a massive help in socialising and rehabilitating Breeze. 

I did think she was totally mad and was about to lose her nose! Definitely not a dog or situation for novice trainers, but a really useful video about hugely helpful technique.

I’m definitely into this, but I do have a question- why does this work, as opposed to making him display his aggressive behavior more? It seems like this could also been seen as Dog displays aggression->give treat-> dog acts aggressive to receive treat. What would the difference be between this counter conditioning and training a dog to be more aggressive?

The difference there is the difference between operant and classical conditioning. Operant conditioning is training as we usually think of, which is controlling conscious behavior. Classical conditioning addresses involuntary reactions, like Pavlov’s drooling dogs.

In this situation, Dr. Yin isn’t trying to change the dog’s behavior, she’s trying to change the dog’s emotions. Once the emotional state has changed, the behavior goes away by itself.

I also get that this works, but I don’t understand your explanation of why you don’t just accidentally capture the aggressive behaviour? The dog doesn’t know your counter conditioning not operant conditioning.

This is something I struggle with teaching mango not to bark at the window, I definitely taught her to bark once and look at the human when trying to counter condition. We are doing better now by treating pre-bark and giving an alternative behaviour if she’s already barking, but it would be interesting to know more if you have the time?

Maybe another way to put it:

“Dog displays aggression->give treat-> dog acts aggressive to receive treat.”

So why doesn’t this teach the dog to be aggressive?

Because the dog is not thinking operant-like about the aggressive behavior. He’s not thinking “oohh I behaved aggressively and I get a reward!!” He’s feeling scared of something, but that something is always followed by a reward, so he learns it’s not scary. The aggressive response associated with his fear goes away too.

It’s the same reason why you can give your dog a reward at every thunderclap, and it doesn’t teach them to be scared of thunder- the fear response wasn’t operant. You’re not rewarding their fear, you’re associating the stimulus, thunder, with good things.

Dogs don’t think “oh, I think I’ll experience some fear now” it’s not something they (or you for that matter) can /will/ themselves to feel.

Plus fear is so aversive you wouldn’t even if you could. Counter-conditioning does “risk” accidentally creating fake on-purpose behaviors. A la the story of the barking dog from Reaching the Animal Mind who was given treats for barking, but when he tried to bark on purpose, it was more of a uncertain high pitched yelp.
That said, those are easy to stop because the behavior is no longer fueled by the underlying emotion.

We humans have a profession that’s all about rewarding people for pretending to have all kinds of emotions: actors. And they still need to practice at it for years. Think about that- you can have a fight with your mom or a heated thanksgiving dinner debate and it’s genuine emotion- but a team of actors staging the same thing have to really work at making it seem real. And someone who’s portraying a criminal doesn’t then become one after the director says “cut!”…. Fake on-purpose behaviors are just not the same, for the same reason- you can’t will yourself to feel emotions on cue. Maybe method actors would disagree lol but that’s the gist of it.

OK, that makes sense, trying to train a dog when they’re over threshold gets you nowhere, and that’s what you would be doing if you were trying to capture aggressive behaviour . And we got rid of ‘bark look at human’ behaviour but just ignoring it, which was a lot easier than getting rid of barking (still working on that, but we make progress).

Thanks

The above explanation works for the layperson, but it doesn’t have a lot of scientific basis. The reality is that we’re only just coming to understand reactions and ‘feelings’ in animals, particularly because of the efforts of some incredible trainers and dogs who are letting us get a glimpse into the conscious mind of a dog via MRI machines. It’s what we THINK might be happening, but realistically all we have to go on is hormone interactions and other foundations in behavioural science.

This is, of course, one of the main challenges of training dogs and interacting with dog trainers. Most people owning a dog do not have any sort of training in applied ethology. Most dog trainers have no idea what applied ethology is. But it’s important, and it helps us to understand consistencies as well as inconsistencies.

To make an explanation with a bit more evidence behind it, we’re performing a chemical override using differing hormones that are released as a response to eating, over the stress hormone cortisol that is heightened when experiencing ‘fear-inducing’ stimuli. There’s also usually a motivation present for the dog to eat, so the dog may have been deprived a meal in the morning (not unusual, many trainers withhold regular meals and choose instead to feed them as rewards, but by doing so you create a motivation in the animal to perform consummatory behaviours, like eating. It’s a perk that motivation increases for the reward.) and is driven to perform a consummatory behaviour to satisfy that motivation.

It has also been shown that if you create a motivation in an animal, and don’t allow them to perform consummatory behaviours to decrease their state of motivation, the existing high state of motivation can actually cause stress. Performing consummatory behaviours to decrease motivation lowers stress. So realistically, there are many small factors coming into play here, many of them related to hormones within the body, that are contributing to associating certain stimuli with good things.

This is a multifaceted issue, but from a physiological and behavioural standpoint, these are just some of the many factors contributing to altering an animal’s perception.

You can indeed capture the wrong behaviour (this is because there are multiple factors working in tandem, you can choose to appeal to classical or operant conditioning while training, but it doesn’t mean you will completely turn the other off, we’ve learned dogs are making inferences in ways many young children are, they are constantly absorbing information.) which is why narrowing the criteria is important. You cease to reward for just anything other than, for instance, biting your face off. You shape a new behaviour as an alternative. Many trainers will just reward ‘not barking’, but you’ll also notice that people will instead reward not barking to start and then will start to reward when the dog lays down, when the dog goes to their crate or lays in their bed. They shape ‘not barking’ into a new behaviour, increasing the criteria from ‘don’t bark’ to ‘don’t bark and turn away from the window’ to ‘don’t bark and turn away from the window then walk to your bed’ and finally ‘don’t bark and turn away from the window and lay down in your bed’, versus leaving the dog to their own devices where they might pick a new behaviour that isn’t ideal. Especially if we’re talking motivation that was previously satisfied by the undesired behaviour, and they are now having to perform displacement behaviours to try to satisfy the motivational state.

You’ll see the idea of teaching an alternative behaviour or task a lot, and you can probably think of a couple you’ve taught your own dog even accidentally. My dog had an issue jumping up, so I realized I was teaching him a replacement behaviour as I continuously asked him to get toys for the visitor instead, as when he retrieves a toy and comes to offer it he keeps all four feet on the ground. I often remind him, but without intensive training or focus on it, he has started to go looking for a toy after being told not to jump up. He is making the connection himself, even without training, that if he has all of this pent up excitement…to use it productively.

@why-animals-do-the-thing

This is an incredible breakdown.

For laypeople who follow this blog – I highly do not suggest trying to recondition aggressive behavior by yourself. Yin was an amazing and skilled professional (rest in peace) and you’re way better off getting someone with training to help you than trying to work with aggression yourself. It’s not worth the risk.

//www.instagram.com/embed.js

why-animals-do-the-thing:

squarerootofcats:

tastefullyoffensive:

Smooth newfie steals a kiss.

@why-animals-do-the-thing

like, this is probably a great example of someone (probably accidentally) training their pet to headbutt them/smack them in the face.  this is a smart newfie, obviously, because he picks up on it right away, but you can see – the first time he bonks this girl in the head, his owners laugh, the woman cuddles him and baby-talks him, so he immediately does it again.  because he got positive attention the first time.  

(we’ve all done this, I think; but it’s worth it to point out that the next time this newfie performs this behavior at an inappropriate time and gets yelled at/negative attention, he’s gonna be confused.)  

Yes! This is a beautiful example of someone accidentally reinforcing a behavior. That affectionate attention is a positive, so the dog is going to continue to perform the behavior that was the antecedent for it. You broke it down beautifully.  

why-animals-do-the-thing:

ladycyon:

speciesofleastconcern:

starrypawz:

violent-darts:

underhuntressmoon:

20legsand4tails:

draikinator:

X X X X X

be nice to puppers

Fucking THANK you for this post!! Ive been waiting for the “dominant alpha” theory to die out. It gets me so heated i swear!!!

It’s so ridiculous that people insist on applying an incorrect theory about wolves to dogs, and then try to apply it to humans too

Seriously that last bit, tho. Even if you want to apply animal dominance hierarchy crap to humans, we’re primates. PRIMATES. 

Yes this. This is why the concept of dominance in dogs is basically a pile of crap.

Also I haven’t got time to go into it but people’s understanding of ‘dominance’ as it relates to animals is pretty flawed. It’s actually quite variable so it’s things like

A is dominant over B for food but C is dominant over A
B is dominant over C and A for the spot by the window
A is dominant over B and C for the squeaky bone

Whenever I hear a zookeeper talk about dominance or god forbid use the word alpha sincerely I cringe

Lol people still believe in alpha theory? How retro.

Everyone believes in alpha theory because a) Cesar and b) science doesn’t trickle down and I hate it. 

I have to be a pedant here but this infographic is getting training terms wrong again. Striking a dog or putting their nose in poop is positive punishment, because you’re adding something to try to decrease the behavior happening again. People get positive punishment confused with negative reinforcement all the time (seriously it’s one of the hardest things for trainers to define sometimes), but they’re not the same. (Negative reinforcement involves removing something to make a behavior happen more frequently – it’s often called pressure and release training, and can be used with positive punishment but is not always). 

What @starrypawz is describing in their reblog is called situational social dominance, which basically says ‘different dogs will stand up for different things in different scenarios, depending on how much they value the thing and what the dynamics of the group regarding the thing are.’

Why wouldn’t you punish a dog for discovered pee spots?

why-animals-do-the-thing:

hrovitnir:

handsomedogs:

aph-tomato-pie:

fatgirlopinions:

handsomedogs:

Dogs live in the now. If you say, “Hey Brutus, come here!” Then yell at him for the pee spot you found on the floor, he is going to think, “Yikes, I shouldn’t come when I am called I guess.” They cannot associate punishment with things that happened in the past, only things in the moment. Even if you’re pretty sure he gets it because he looks super guilty, he is just responding to the tone of your voice.

This though

That’s why you stick their noses in the pee spot for a whiff too so they know their pee in that spot is making you upset. They will know it’s their pee right away because of their super sniffers, don’t worry. And it’s not as cruel as it sounds–dogs react to the nose before ears or eyes–so it’s like pointing to a juice spill because little Timmy was a brat. The dogs will understand because it’s all happening in the now.

Not sure if this is serious or not, but for those who feel this way please understand that a dog is.. Simple minded. So while you want to deliver the message that peeing in the house is not okay, they are learning that you do not approve of their pee in general. This will create a nervous dog who will hide their eliminations from you in fear, and may even hold their bladder.

The only effective way to provide bilateral feedback is to catch them in the act, then praise them outside. Scolding them hours later by shoving their face in their pee will leave your reasoning up to their interpretation. Do you not like when he smells his pee? Because you’re making him smell it, but then you’re scolding him. Do you not like when he poops? Because you are scolding him for pooping, so next time he will try not to poop.

They cannot differentiate when it is hours later. So while they do understand your anger towards their elimination, they are left to just assume that eliminations make you angry in general. Don’t be a bully.

Jesus I hate that people still do this. It’s very well demonstrated this does not work. It’s on you to set your dog up to succeed, not fail, and sometimes you just have to deal with mistakes.

I want to add that it’s not that dogs are simpleminded per se – they’re very capable of understanding schedules and noticing people’s selective attention for instance – but we have no way of communicating to them a frame of reference in time to which our punishment applies.

We don’t even know how dogs interpret time. We know they can remember previous things that happen but not if they have concepts for concrete blocks like ‘yesterday’ or ‘an hour ago’, so there’s no way of letting them know you’re referencing a previous action or what one it is. They mostly learn in the moment because that’s the only conceptual timeline we can communicate with them in.

Thank you to everyone who provided informative input on this because I wouldn’t have even known where to start with addressing it.

The Damage of Dog Whispering

why-animals-do-the-thing:

This is an authorized repost of this article. 

The full pdf can be found at this google drive link for more-professional-than-tumblr sharing purposes. 

I wrote this paper four years ago, and it still stands as probably the most important and widely read piece of my work. It’s official posting is moving to this blog because it needs to be seen and referenced as part of a larger educational effort about animal behavior and welfare. It’s been reposted to a number of sites. Some credit me, some don’t – all have been messaged about it. Some insist on sharing it with the inflammatory photos of Millan flipping off the camera, which were added by a third party and are consistently the bane of my existence. I consider them highly unprofessional as part of an academic essay, but without them functioning as click-bait I think it would be much less widely read. They’re catchy and inflammatory, but they’re not my addition.

Share this link, share the google doc – but please don’t share the versions with those photos. If you see them posted on your friend’s timelines or other sites, please, tell them those photos aren’t part of the original educational effort and ask them to support and share this version.  

The story I don’t often tell about this paper is that it came about as a result of a bet with one of my professors. I knew, as most people in the academic side of canine training do by now, that it was easy to disprove Millan’s theories as harmful using primary sources. I wanted to see if it was possible for someone who wasn’t a trainer, wasn’t an academic, to draw the same conclusions from a selection of well-cited books that could be pulled off a shelf. They had to be easy to read and accessible with very little background knowledge about behavioral science. I wanted to prove that with dedication and time literally any dog owner could draw the right conclusions about Millan’s work and do the right thing by their dog by switching away from it. She took me up on the bet, and I won.

If you care about animal welfare, please read this.

I’ve now been training dogs for a decade. I find Cesar Millan’s training theory and advice appalling. As a scientist, its obvious that his factual statements and derived conclusions are entirely wrong. As a trainer, I can tell how stressed and unhappy – not cured – the dogs portrayed on his show are. It’s covered up by rhetoric, the soundtrack and a voiceover. Tens of scientists, trainers and behavioral science organizations have spoken out against his theories. I’ve seen dogs mistreated by well-meaning owners who took his advice unquestioningly. Whether you’re an owner, a trainer or just someone who likes dogs, please read this. It’s important to be educated in the science behind training theories before espousing or applying them.

This paper has been written as a cumulative work for an intensive independent study [in 2012] on canine cognition and applied training theory. It aims only to represent logical conclusions as drawn from scientific sources and professionals in the field. You’ll notice the sources cited are credible books and web-sites – this is intentional. The goal was to write a paper with information taken from sources directly available to the common layperson. I’m happy to suggest scientific sources for more reading.

It has been pointed out to me that the mention of immigrant status in this is easily interpreted as discriminatory, and that was never the intent. I originally wrote this as a scientific paper, in which it was considered important to go into detail about his credentials. I included it in his background because it was something he emphasized in his own books as highly impacting his career trajectory.


THE DAMAGE OF DOG WHISPERING: A CRITIQUE OF CESAR MILLAN’S THEORY OF DOG PACK DYNAMICS

Rachel Garner 4/25/12

INTRODUCTION

Theories of canine psychology and training derived from legitimate behavioral science have progressed greatly in the last fifty years. Unfortunately, the public’s most beloved source of information – The Dog Whisperer by Cesar Millan – advocates a theory in direct opposition to this progress. For the last eight years, Cesar Millan has put forth an abusive training theory predicated on disproven science, fallacious logic, and incorrect assumptions. Described by a New York Times affiliate as a “one-man wrecking ball directed at 40 years of progress in understanding and shaping dog behavior,” Millan mixes an overly simplistic and incorrect view of canine social structures with a lack of scientific knowledge. His philosophy centers around two main theories; that canines have an innate and ingrained need to function according to a ‘wolf-pack’ social structure, and that dogs need to live ‘as they did in nature’, before human intervention. Because the concept of dominance theory is central to Millan’s training philosophy, many other crucial aspects of a dog’s environment and psyche that should be addressed when dealing with behavioral issues are completely ignored. As a result of the Dog Whisperer’s popularized methods, many dogs with simple issues are handled badly and likely abused in the name of ‘pack theory’. The worst part is that the entire situation could be avoided easily. It requires only a small amount of research into the social and psychological lives of the common canine to understand where Millan’s theory goes wrong.

Keep reading

Gorillas make up ‘little food songs’ while they eat: Listen to them here

dignityisforotherpeople:

And it’s not like they “sing the same song over and over,”
commented Luef. “It seems like they are composing their little food
songs.”

According to Ali Vella-Irving of the Toronto Zoo, “Each gorilla
has its own voice: you can really tell who’s singing. And if it’s their
favorite food, they sing louder.”

Gorillas make up ‘little food songs’ while they eat: Listen to them here

why-animals-do-the-thing:

young-supernovae:

lio-plural-don:

sticks m’ legy out real far

@why-animals-do-the-thing

why are they doing the thing? i’m guessing trying to impress a mate with their legs

I don’t know what species this is, but googling ‘frog leg extension behavior’ found this paper:

Visual display in Blanchard’s cricket frogs (Acris blanchardi)

Abstract: Most reports of anuran visual displays (especially those involving extension of the back legs) are of tropical species living within noisy habitats. Here, we provide a descriptive report of visual displays involving back leg extension in a temperate anuran, Blanchard’s cricket frog (Acris blanchardi). We observed male cricket frogs engaging in bouts of display, lasting an average of 2.9 min and incorporating both visual and acoustic signals. In a typical display bout, frogs near each other began circling (during a chorus at the pond) within a small area while extending their back legs and occasionally vocalizing. Rarely, the frogs would attack one another by hopping onto, then off, an opponent. Bouts ended when individuals stopped displaying while remaining near each other. The most common behaviors observed during a display bout, in order of decreasing frequency, were leg extensions, direction changes, forward movements, and vocalizations. These observations increase prospects for the study of evolution of visual displays in anurans occupying relatively open, quiet habitats.

This one sounds like it’s an intra-male competition behavior, but I can’t tell if that’s for territory defense or mate aquisition. It probably depends more on the specific species represented, and could likely be either – although I’d guess more male competition because size/length of limbs is a ‘I’m bigger than you’ thing, and mate displays tend to more often represent fitness or reproductive quality. 

We just talked about flagging/leg waving in Herpetology on Thursday. Frogs that do this apparently use it instead of calling due to competing sounds from their habitat, like flowing water.